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I've been working on a prototype for a new downloads page. My goal was to make it easier for people to find the downloads they want through a simple but intuitive GUI interface. I'm using Simple Ajax calls to update the content of the page. The page is broken down into three tabs. Packages - We want to promote the packages as they provide a good "out of box" experience for new users. Distros - Here we can provide the full list of member distros instead of just 3 at the bottom of the page. Projects - This in my opinion is the biggest improvement. The tag list will let you filter out the projects that you may be looking for based on the category / topic you choose. I'm hoping for tonnes of feedback / ideas / suggestions for this idea. Since the Downloads page is one of the most viewed pages on the website I think that its important that we try to cater to as many different cases as possible without bloating the page. I think this tag / filter system will do just that. *Note: If there are any missing links / text on the projects tab, then most likely the data is missing from the projectInfoDatabase. So if your a committer on a project with missing data PLEASE update your info!
I like it. :) Only a few suggestions: * Eclipse 3.4 (Ganymede) Downloads ---> Eclipse Downloads The reason is that "3.4 (Ganymede)" is only true for the packages. You don't know about the distros and you can get any version from the packages tab. Maybe you should print a "Ganymede Packages (based on Eclipse 3.4)" only when the "Packages" tab is select, right below the tab (where the "filter by tag" line is on the Projects tab). * The links on the "Projects" tab should point to the download sites by default. After all, we are on a download page so linking to the project home pages doesn't really make sense. Maybe the green arrow should be replaced with a home page icon which would actually link to the project landing page. * The prominent link to the source code is missing. * The prominent link to the torrents is missing. * The JRE and software license text is missing. (Should we keep it?) Nice work! :)
I'll echo word-for-word what Gunnar said. The License notice needs to remain at the top of the page. See bug 227656 comment 14. The JRE notice is one of those things that stemmed from FAQs to IRC/newsgroups/webmaster mail. I think it should stay there too, as the page is targeting newcomers who may not know.
Love the new design! Some nits: a) missing the blurb about GCJ b) on projects tab, download link next to Modeling Project should point to http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/downloads/ (but I'm guessing that's a portal thing?) c) on the projects tab, smila, rienna, and eclipselink are under a category with no title d) on the projects tab under enterprise, Modeling Project is not listed yet VE (which hasn't had a release in two years) IS listed. d) on the projects tab under frameworks, UML2 is listed but MDT is not. e) repeatedly clicking the Member Distros tab resorts the list at random. Can't this list just be alphabetic? If the logos were smaller (or alternatively positioned left/right) all 9 would sit above the fold at 1280x1024. f) Link to http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-Update/keeping-up-to-date.html in the lower right box ought to point to something about p2 g) as mentioned already "Eclipse 3.4 (Ganymede) Downloads" should perhaps be "Eclipse Downloads", but you could put "Eclipse Ganymede Packages" or "Ganymede All-In-One Bundles" on the first tab instead of "Eclipse Packages" (?) h) the icon is missing for the RCP package
Nathan, This is a very creative solution. I really like the tab structure at the top because it makes the alternativechoices highly visible even before the user considers the initial set of choices of the default tab. By putting the different types of choices on different tabs, it becomes far less of an issue whether there are lots of choices or only a few choices, particularly if the common choices are featured first. I can understand that members would like to see a random order to ensure they are all featured on an equal footing. It might not necessarily be ideal for a user, but we have to balance member value with user experience. I sort of miss having pretty icons on the projects page; many of the projects do have pretty logos.
I like it except for one small detail: the problem is that with the tab structure, one of the tabs will be used by most everyone and the other tabs will not be. Thus unless we have "member distros" as the default tab, the member distros will lose a lot of their prominence on the downloads page. However I suspect that if we make member distros the default tab, we'll get a lot of grief from a certain segment of the community. Other than that, it looks nice.
(In reply to comment #5) > the problem is that with the tab structure, one of the tabs will be used > by most everyone and the other tabs will not be. It's just one of those things. We have so much to put on that page that it simply doesn't fit. If we put everything inline, some content will be so far down no one will scroll. At this point, we either need a ground-breaking design or to remove some content so we don't need tabs.
The good news (and this was my feedback to Nathan) is that we now have click-data for the member distros. So, I am not opposed to experimenting here with a new page as long as we're willing to commit to continious improvement on highlighting the distros if the data shows that harm has been done. I think there are a lot of treatments we could provide to draw attention to the member distros if we find there is a decline, but I think this is a very worthy experiment. - Don
(In reply to comment #7) > The good news (and this was my feedback to Nathan) is that we now have > click-data for the member distros. So, I am not opposed to experimenting here > with a new page as long as we're willing to commit to continious improvement on > highlighting the distros if the data shows that harm has been done. > > I think there are a lot of treatments we could provide to draw attention to the > member distros if we find there is a decline, but I think this is a very worthy > experiment. Don, it would be interesting to know what the click rate is to the Member Distros. Because with the non-tabbed download page, those distros are at the bottom of the page. As you said, people tend not to scroll, where as having a Tab does promote them a bit better in my opinion.
I've updated the page a bit. - Added a Feature Member Distro to the packages page since it is the default tab (if you havent set a cookie yet) - Added a Bit Torrent Link in the nav bar - Added the JRE warning text - Added Google Ads - Changed the link on the projects to point to the download link - Changed the icon link on the projects page to be the projects homepage link.
Looks great! Two small nits that are in no way blocking this from going live: 1. Projects tab > filter -- doesn't seem to work for me FF2/Linux 2. I think the right column content still looks better in small boxes. For some reason, in plain whitespace, the content just seems to be floating in thin air. But that's just me. +1
No complaints here from a member perspective. - Don
Nathan, I like it a lot. Could we include the download stats too? Like the ones listed here: http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/
(In reply to comment #12) > Nathan, > > I like it a lot. Could we include the download stats too? Like the ones > listed here: http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/ > +1 for the stats. I wonder if we should have a 'most recent' stat that just shows the downloads in the last 30 days?
(In reply to comment #10) > Looks great! Two small nits that are in no way blocking this from going live: > > 1. Projects tab > filter -- doesn't seem to work for me FF2/Linux Thanks for picking up on the filters bug it was a side effect of some new code the fixes the issue Nick describes in comment #3 : > e) repeatedly clicking the Member Distros tab resorts the list at random. > 2. I think the right column content still looks better in small boxes. For some > reason, in plain whitespace, the content just seems to be floating in thin air. > But that's just me. > I've added the boxes back in but i may look at redoing the boxes as its not quite the look i want for this page. Other fixes. - SubProjects now have there homepage icon next to them. - And if the downloadurl is not set for the projects i simply don't hyperlink them. - Added the source code link next to the Bit Torrent link.
(In reply to comment #13) > (In reply to comment #12) > > Nathan, > > > > I like it a lot. Could we include the download stats too? Like the ones > > listed here: http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/ > > > > +1 for the stats. I wonder if we should have a 'most recent' stat that just > shows the downloads in the last 30 days? > The packages listing isn't generated dynamically currently as it was just for a mockup, making it dynamic is currently the next thing on my todo list. In regards to a recent stat this would require changes to the download_file_index table as it only keeps track of total downloads. If there's enough desire to see this I think we can make it happen, I'm going to focus the effort on using whats available currently.
I like stats a lot, so I like that idea too...
I like the stats idea too, but if if we want to do the 30-day stats, I suggest we make that a v2 objective. I don't have any good ideas on how to make that happen right now and I'm anxious to see this page live. Also, I'm going to be heavy-handed here and require the page remain 'static'. The current page loads instantly, in less than .3 second, whereas the dynamic packages page still takes 1.3 second to load, is not cacheable and uses 100% of one webserver CPU in the process. I'll work with you (Nathan) so that the 'static' page is updated every day/half-day/6 hours/whatever so that it appears to be dynamic.
(In reply to comment #17) > I like the stats idea too, but if if we want to do the 30-day stats, I suggest > we make that a v2 objective. I don't have any good ideas on how to make that > happen right now and I'm anxious to see this page live. +1 to making 30 days stats a v2 objective.
(In reply to comment #17) > > Also, I'm going to be heavy-handed here and require the page remain 'static'. > The current page loads instantly, in less than .3 second, whereas the dynamic > packages page still takes 1.3 second to load, is not cacheable and uses 100% of > one webserver CPU in the process. I'll work with you (Nathan) so that the > 'static' page is updated every day/half-day/6 hours/whatever so that it appears > to be dynamic. > Absolutely, that was always my intent. But i've still got to write the page that gets generated so that we can cache it. Poor wording on my part. +1 to 30 days in v2. as well.
More updates! - Packages Tab is now being run from a cached version of a dynamic page. - Download Counts have been added to the packages tab. - When changing tabs the page will be greyed out while the new content loads to let the user know that something is indeed happening. TODO - Browser Compatibility - Code Optimization Keep the feedback coming.
More updates. - Projects Tab + Filters now cached versions of dynamic pages. - Tabs graphics converted to a CSS Sprite to fix image loading issues. - Converted some of my own code to use YUI code to increase performance. - Now working in IE. - Performed some rudimentary performance tests and seems to pass those. We're hoping to launch this page live sometime this week. If you notice any issues please let me know, i'll be spending the next few days just testing and optimizing.
I've put this page live! http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ Changing the bug title and URL to suit. Please leave any bugs you find in here, after two weeks i'll probably close this out.
Looks very nice.
Wow, what an improvement over the old layout. Great work. I had a little problem with the use of yahooapi tough: I'm one of those paranoid noscript[1] users and these scripts are blocked for me by default. When i click on the Member (or Project) tab with js disabled, it opens a new url[2] which returns a 404. At first i thought it was a temporal glitch so i tried it again later... it took me a while to notice that js was required for switching tabs. To save others the trouble (and possibly some bugreports) it would be nice to have a fallback solution that works without js or at least check if js works if it is required so that you can show something more meaningful than a 404. [1]https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/722 [2]http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/member ps. i also noticed that you link the scripts directly from yahooapis.com. Is the bandwitdh saving really worth an external dependency like that?
(In reply to comment #24) > Wow, what an improvement over the old layout. Great work. Thanks! > I had a little problem with the use of yahooapi tough: > I'm one of those paranoid noscript[1] users and these scripts are blocked for > me by default. > When i click on the Member (or Project) tab with js disabled, it opens a new > url[2] which returns a 404. > At first i thought it was a temporal glitch so i tried it again later... it > took me a while to notice that js was required for switching tabs. > To save others the trouble (and possibly some bugreports) it would be nice to > have a fallback solution that works without js or at least check if js works if > it is required so that you can show something more meaningful than a 404. Agreed, this is just good usability. I'll get to this next week. > ps. i also noticed that you link the scripts directly from yahooapis.com. Is > the bandwitdh saving really worth an external dependency like that? We are currently reviewing YUI 2.5.2 through the IP Due Diligence process. Once it's been cleared by the IP Team i'll be able to remove the external dependency.
The re-design seems to have lost the ZIP extraction warning that was put in place for Bug 169776
1. Am I blind or did the "Compare Eclipse Packages" (or whatever it was called) go poof? The question of what packages have what often crop up on IRC. 2. BitTorrent is the name of the protocol, torrent is the name of the file with the .torrent file extension that contains the information about the file(s) being shared in question.
(In reply to comment #27) > 1. Am I blind or did the "Compare Eclipse Packages" (or whatever it was called) > go poof? The question of what packages have what often crop up on IRC. > > 2. BitTorrent is the name of the protocol, torrent is the name of the file with > the .torrent file extension that contains the information about the file(s) > being shared in question. > I've added the Compare Packages Link back in to the packages tab and also changed the BitTorrent link to say Torrents.
(In reply to comment #24) > Wow, what an improvement over the old layout. Great work. > > I had a little problem with the use of yahooapi tough: > I'm one of those paranoid noscript[1] users and these scripts are blocked for > me by default. > When i click on the Member (or Project) tab with js disabled, it opens a new > url[2] which returns a 404. > At first i thought it was a temporal glitch so i tried it again later... it > took me a while to notice that js was required for switching tabs. > To save others the trouble (and possibly some bugreports) it would be nice to > have a fallback solution that works without js or at least check if js works if > it is required so that you can show something more meaningful than a 404. > > [1]https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/722 > [2]http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/member > I've applied code to the page that should let no-script users use the page with the same functionality. Let me know if there are other JS issues like this that popup.
I have to say, having to scroll past a flashy banner ad for a Swedish study abroad program to get to my mirror of choice on the mirror selection page felt very... cheap. I don't know of other open source sites that have such in-your-face unrelated adds on the path to getting your downloads. I think the strategic member ads on the sidebar are fine - they are not in your face at the center of the page and they are mostly relevant for the audience (and they support the members who pay for the development of Eclipse). But these random banner adds above the mirror list really come across as a cheap money grab, and would probably hurt my impression of Eclipse if I wasn't already so familiar with it. Just my $0.02...
I hadn't noticed it until now, but I tend to agree. Having them off to the side is probably a better option. At least they aren't glaring you right in the face.
A few comments: Details of the advertising working group recommendations to the Eclipse Foundation can be found here: http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/boardminutes/2007_12_12-13_Minutes.php The value of the ads to the Eclipse Foundation as a source of revenue is significant, but not material. The real value is to the ecosystem (members and non-members alike) - the ads are an excellent mechanism for the Ecosystem to promote new products and services, which we need to continue thriving. I can easily think of a dozen members for which google ads is a significant source of their marketing leads and budget. It is unfortunate that John experienced an ad that was not relevant, there are millions of hits per month and it's assured that it won't be perfect. Google seems to run experiments from time to time, for a couple days early on in the ads on EPIC there was a casting call for a Will Farrel movie. It was a kink that worked itself out quickly. Dave, you said "I hadn't noticed it until now". These ads have been runing for over 2 months and this is the first concern I've seen raised - so I agree 100% ;) I would humbly suggest we stand pat, but defintely keep and eye and ear open to see if the irrelevant ads are a trend. - Don
Reason I hadn't noticed is because, I typically don't go through the Package download pages, but the individual project download pages. Again, not a huge deal, but the positioning of the ad is a little in your face. Believe me, I understand the reasons for the adds, infact we might be adding some discrete ads to our site as well.
Ok, maybe adsense is just having a bad day. When clicking the "next" arrow on the add I found out of ten ads only two were related to Eclipse software. Among others were ads related to Solar eclipses, Mitsubishi Eclipse, stainless steel mirrors, FTP server software that wasn't Eclipse-based, the Swedish study program, and finally "Cut down 9 lbs of stomach fat every 11 days by obeying this 1 tiny rule". Of the two ads related to Eclipse software only one was from a member company. Based on this perhaps unusual sample, I would say it's failing the two primary purposes mentioned in the board minutes (increase membership value and provide useful information to end users). Anyway, I only used this page because of the mirror replication problem this morning so I may never have to see it again... I just wanted to offer an initial end user impression.
Created attachment 114316 [details] Screenshot of an ad for ING Direct > I would say it'sfailing the two primary purposes mentioned > in the board minutes (increase > membership value and provide useful information to end users). I must say that seeing an ad for ING Direct is a bit disconcerting. Perhaps the 'confused Google Ads' is limited to the mirror selection page, because all those mirror names are not keywords associated with Eclipse. Shall I open a separate bug?
The screenshot shows the ad floating -- did you show this to Nathan? He's been trying to reproduce that bug for weeks. - Don
Here is some advice on how to put a better focus on the ad sense relevance: https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=23168 - Don
I've opened Bug 249805 to track this as i'd really like to close this bug as it has served its intended purpose.
Closing this bug out. If there are any more issues with the new downloads page please open an new bug.
