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In the Software updates UI, there's a check box that says "include items that have already been installed". I leave it unchecked, and assume that means "exclude items that have already need installed". But, it doesn't seem to work ... or, I should say, only works for cases where things have literally been installed, by previous explicit installs from this UI. For example, in WTP, we have one feature "Web Development" that _includes_ a JavaScript Feature (and the JavaScript Feature is also separately installable). If a user explicitly installs Web Development, then JavaScript Feature is implicitly installed. But, JavaScript continues to show up in the UI, as though it has not been installed yet. I believe the old Update Manager respected these "hierarchical" filters based on what was installed, not what the user explicitly picked to be installed.
>I should say, only works for cases where things have literally been installed, by previous explicit installs from this UI. This is the expected behavior. And from the user point of view it is not the same thing. If he explicitly installed "Web development" and get javascript for free, he may then be surprised when he looses the javascript edition facility when he uninstalls web development. After all it is not easy to know which functionality you get from one feature. Also should WTP chose to refactor javascript out of web development, then the user looses the javascript edition when updating to this new feature. In short we are trying to be explicit and not do too much magic which works for one user and not for others.
I'd like to close this as a duplicate of bug 224472, but David, can you read that bug and let me know if you agree? It tackles the more general issue of what we present as "installed." This is at the top of the 3.5 issues list.
(In reply to comment #2) > I'd like to close this as a duplicate of bug 224472, but David, can you read > that bug and let me know if you agree? It tackles the more general issue of > what we present as "installed." This is at the top of the 3.5 issues list. > Sure, what ever is easiest for you. But, honestly, sometimes these things seem "over thought" to me :) "Installed" seems pretty clear. It either is, or isn't. From an end-users point of view, that is ... I think your deep knowledge of the inner workings is sometimes a hindrance to simple solutions and terminology. And, for any software, it is quite common that installing one thing installs other things too. But, if you are saying that things can be "installed" multiple time (once with web developer, once with jee developer, once by itself, and all these combinations and orders effect uninstall behavior too, then ... well, I'm lost already -- no one will be able to understand that!) And, also honestly, I don't mean any of this as a criticism, just a self-observation as much as anything else, about "us programmers" -- and a caution to Susan not to sit too close to Pascal and John :) And, maybe I'm just stuck in my ways where it will be hard for me to understand the nuances of P2. I'm sure some "real life" user experiences/reports will help greatly. Much thanks to you all. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 224472 ***
