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During the last eclipsist (turkish eclipse summit), a news group for local eclipse users was one of the top requests. The newsgroup would allow a local community to grow, lets them share experience and knowledge, and allow them to communicate in their own language where the language becomes a barrier. The same concept can be applied for other local user groups. I suggest organizing them under a common place such as usergroups and giving them names like "turkish.users"
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Ok, I get the hint :-) The standard NG convention is eclipse.groupname How about we start a localized convention: eclipse.(language-in-english).groupname Examples: eclipse.turkish.users eclipse.german.users eclipse.chinese.users eclipse.french.users eclipse.italian.users I'll only create groups on demand. I'll assume that pure silence means 'yes your convention makes sense'. The Turkish NG is scheduled for creation in 8 hours.
Great names... Can we create eclipse.turkish.users ? Looking forward to being the first member.
Having a second though, we also should consider side effects of this. The main purpose of these sub groups should sharing of eclipse related information which applies to locale users *only* If knowledge sharing becomes one of the aims of setting up local newsgroups, then we divide the overall knowledge sharing into a number of sub groups. This also have a meaning that this kind of information will start to be shared in locale languages, making it impossible for international users to understand it. In turn will lower the synergy of having one single group. Having said that not everyone must be able to speak English to get/provide help. I think for knowledge, using local newsgroups should be a "fall back" resource. And this also has implications for managing the groups tightly so that Turkish users should not use the Turkish group only or primarily. Need a through thinking. As a separate thought I find newsgroups hard to search. I think there are better technologies alternative to newsgroups out there. Coupled with evolving strong computerized translation technologies, may be using those new technologies is the path to go down that road. Regards, Hasan Ceylan
I believe the local user group idea is not in conflict with your concerns; having them available in eclipse foundation community areas would make them easily accessible to people, instead of creating a number of other environments - Sharing with the general eclipse community and/or within the scope of eclipse projects should still happen in the more technical newsgroups/wikis/bugzilla etc. These local new groups would help eclipse sub-communities who are geographically close to each other to discuss issues relevant to their group in a more focused environment. Newsgroups are not necessarily language specific, however if they are more comfortable communicating in their own language, it would be more likely to get a response in these groups. The goal is to remove as many barriers to as possible to get people to work together. Overall, I believe it would help build a larger and healthier eclipse community, which is not unlike how eclipse projects are developed - locally closely-knit teams loosely coupled with global community with common goals, principles and processes.
Original bug report states: "The newsgroup would allow a local community to grow, lets them share experience and knowledge, and allow them to communicate in their own language where the language becomes a barrier." So the needs set here are i) growth of the community ii) share experience and knowledge iii) Communicate in their own language where language becomes a barrier We need to distinguish some terms: 1) Needs 1.b) Growth of local community 1.a) Sharing/growth of the knowledge 2.c) Enabling non-English speakers to collaborate on problems / info / knowledge / help-seeking etc. ([CIKH] as short) 2) Definition 2.a) Language 2.b) Locality I do not object (i) and (iii). But (ii) covers (iii) as well and IMHO there careful steps should be taken. I have no problem with providing people with newsgroups where they may seek help in local languages. And quite frankly, I agree with the fact that "we cannot expect the whole world to speak English". But I do not remember seeing anywhere a rule (although I do not claim) that seeking help in local language in primary newsgroups is forbidden. So prefixing the subject with ie: [Turkish] might be a filter for RSS readers or proper newsgroup clients and those who are willing to support other users in their native language can use that method. When Binding framework was in its early stages, it used that convention in the primary Platform newsgroup and that convention worked like a charm. I am not pretending to be a decision maker in that topic but, providing merely my thoughts for a better platform. Keeping that in mind, let me re-iterate my considerations: - Is newsgroups audiencing local users a bad idea? NO - Would these groups help grow local user base? YES - Should these groups be used for [CIKH]? NO - What the language of the groups should be? ENGLISH AND NATIVE both, no problem When we are talking about projects like EMF, JDT, WST, Platform, sub groups used for [CIKH] is no problem cause the primary groups already has a very very large user base. But when it comes to projects with smaller user base like AJDT, ERCP, RAP then information scattered in local language might account for much larger amount then information in English which will kill the synergy. Generating sub groups will make people seeking information and collaboration come to eclipse foundation who currently use different platforms, (USENET groups, Sun forums, other forums, etc) So the primary concern providing single point of gathering is satisfied. But I still stand behind my concerns about loosing synergy. And again I DO NOT say there should not be sub groups, but the boundaries must be well drawn for those. Regards, Hasan Ceylan
Please someone close this bug report because eclipse.turkish.users newsgroup is created.
(In reply to comment #12) > How about we start a localized convention: > eclipse.(language-in-english).groupname Denis, don't you think this can break the nice newsgroups structure that we have now? I mean this: (assuming alphabetic order) eclipse.birt eclipse.chinese.users eclipse.dtp eclipse.germany.users [...] etc. so it will be hard to find most interesting newsgroups like e.platform. Second, I don't belive there be more than one group per language. So overall, maybe eclipse.users.<language> would be more consistent?
I agree with you. (In reply to comment #19) > (In reply to comment #12) > > How about we start a localized convention: > > eclipse.(language-in-english).groupname > Denis, don't you think this can break the nice newsgroups structure that we > have now? I mean this: (assuming alphabetic order) > eclipse.birt > eclipse.chinese.users > eclipse.dtp > eclipse.germany.users > [...] > etc. so it will be hard to find most interesting newsgroups like e.platform. > Second, I don't belive there be more than one group per language. > So overall, maybe eclipse.users.<language> would be more consistent?
> Second, I don't belive there be more than one group per language. > So overall, maybe eclipse.users.<language> would be more consistent? Agreed. Great idea, thanks. eclipse.users.<language> it is. eclipse.turkish.users has been deleted and eclipse.users.turkish has been created.
