Bugzilla – Full Text Bug Listing
| Summary: | Download page should provide link for the platform's download page. | ||||||
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| Product: | Community | Reporter: | Ed Merks <Ed.Merks> | ||||
| Component: | Website | Assignee: | phoenix.ui <phoenix.ui-inbox> | ||||
| Status: | RESOLVED DUPLICATE | QA Contact: | |||||
| Severity: | enhancement | ||||||
| Priority: | P3 | CC: | caniszczyk, ian.skerrett, owen.rees | ||||
| Version: | unspecified | ||||||
| Target Milestone: | --- | ||||||
| Hardware: | PC | ||||||
| OS: | Windows XP | ||||||
| Whiteboard: | |||||||
| Bug Depends on: | 208422 | ||||||
| Bug Blocks: | |||||||
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Description
Ed Merks
If you go to www.eclipse.org/eclipse there at least three links to the platform download page. This is consistent with all of the other top level projects, so I am not sure why we should add more links to the existing download page. Ian, I suggest you have a look at complaints on the platform newsgroup: "I am about to throw my computer out of the window with Eclipse on it." Personally I find that every time I need an Eclipse download I'm frustrated that I need to hunt for it. The first time that happened, it took me a long time to find it. The platform is special and Eclipse's main download page should make it easy to find the platform's downloads. So I would turn your argument around and ask "What harm is there in making it easier to find the platform's downloads when that's what all of us developers extending Eclipse really need?" Consider that this is likely to increase the traffic on this page. Might that have some value? -1 I think a little self-promotion is all the Eclipse project needs. I will take the lead for M3, and hopefully the Eclipse project can follow for future milestones. If you start at http://www.eclipse.org/ ('home') and want to download something, the big bold button tempts you to go to http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ rather than to go via some project, and it takes two clicks to get from 'home' to any particular project as far as I can tell. Once you arrive at http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ it is not immediately obvious that if you want something other than one of the integrated packages then the "By project" or "By topic" in the menu on the left take you to other download pages. They do not stand out from the other items as being particularly relevant to downloads. The main body of the page is devoted entirely to the integrated packages and does not offer links to the many other download resources. Note that I don't open a bugzilla like this because of my own person needs or preferences. I do know how to find Eclipse now so whether this changes doesn't matter to me directly. The point is that, I get the sense the that users out there, including developers working with integration and milestone builds want and perhaps even need something better than what we have. I'm not sure why making it so easy to get the latest releases (we did a great job on that) has to be at the cost of making it significantly harder to get the things that used to be easy to get. It seems such a minor thing to add another shortcut link is a reasonably prominent location. Even an "Other Eclipse Downloads..." at the end of the paragraph would be helpful... This blog reminds me that folks are still have trouble finding any Eclipse downloads other than Europa. http://eclipser-blog.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-to-find-other-versions-of-eclipse.html I'm not sure I understand why it should not be made easier to find something like M3. I get the impression that the argument is that it's good if it takes more effort to find M3 and that making that easier is not a worthwhile goal for the website to achieve. The argument that the Eclipse project should work to make folks aware of some other way to find their downloads seems odd, but if that's the argument, what's being done to achieve it. I'm still hung up on simply making it easier to find M3 via the standard path folks are directed to use for their downloads, so perhaps I could ask this question: What harm is there in making it easier to find the M3 download when following the bright orange download button on the main page?
> I'm still hung up on simply making it easier to find M3 via the standard path
> folks are directed to use for their downloads, so perhaps I could ask this
> question: What harm is there in making it easier to find the M3 download when
> following the bright orange download button on the main page?
>
There are a couple of reasons:
1) We are trying to focus the community on using the packages, instead of individual projects.
2) We get feedback that our download page it too complicated, so adding more options to the page, just adds to the complexity. We also focus the download page on making it easy for people new to Eclipse; trying to ensure they have a positive first experience. Therefore, adding more options just adds to the complexity.
The Platform project has also done a nice job of fixing their project page, so it is easier to find their download page. If people go to eclipse.org/eclipse, it is pretty obvious how to find the download page.
Ian, I find the argument that a link to other downloads will degrade the user experience to be a thin one at best. If we want to improve the quality of the packages, and of the next release in general, we need to make downloading of the Ganymede stream and its packages easier, and part of that will involve making it easier for folks to find the Ganymede stream in the first place... How would you respond to the blog posting? Isn't this evidence that finding Eclipse downloads is a challenge? Do we really want to challenge the community in this way? I see you did comment on that blog posting. However, I'm wondering what will compel people to got to http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/ in the first place? Ultimately they need to get to http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/ and getting to http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/ seems no easier than getting to the final goal in some other way. Ok, so our download story is confusing for committers and new users. 1) http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads should point to http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/ 2) Why not add an 'All versions' link somewhere... or maybe an "Advanced Download Page" next to "Find out more..." there are bloggers out there having troubles finding certain Eclipse versions (http://eclipser-blog.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-to-find-other-versions-of-eclipse.html) I think that sounds like an acceptable compromise... keep the page how it is, just add a link that gets you too http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/ somehow. Created attachment 82973 [details] screenshot of eclipse.newcomer I was reading the eclipse.newcomer and found this screenshot quite ironic. - The top thread: 'where are the old versions of Eclipse?'. --> No link --> simple answer: click "Find Out More". - The thread immediately after: 'what's the difference between the packages'. --> There *is* a link: "Compare Packages" --> Eric's answer: click "Find Out More". Thread #2 proves that adding links right on the page is no guarantee that people won't simply ask. There is no cure for people who don't do their homework. However, adding oodles of links on a page -- to cater to a relatively small percentage of an audience -- will only serve to confuse the larger portion who is well-served by a simple, easy-to-use page. Hey, kind of like the philosophy of this multi-zillion dollar homepage: http://google.com/ (In reply to comment #10) > Ok, so our download story is confusing for committers and new users. You lie -- our download story is not confusing for new users. Really. > 1) http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads should point to > http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/ Please open a bug against the Eclipse Project website. They have the power to do that, not Phoenix. I'm marking this as a dupe of bug 205205. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 205205 *** |