Bugzilla – Full Text Bug Listing
| Summary: | Add org.eclipse.ui.views.log to the RCP feature | ||
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| Product: | [Eclipse Project] Platform | Reporter: | Chris Aniszczyk <caniszczyk> |
| Component: | UI | Assignee: | Boris Bokowski <bokowski> |
| Status: | RESOLVED WONTFIX | QA Contact: | |
| Severity: | normal | ||
| Priority: | P3 | CC: | baumanbr, bokowski, ed.burnette, helmut.haigermoser, jeffmcaffer, john.arthorne, Kevin_McGuire, kim.moir, Mike_Wilson |
| Version: | 3.4 | ||
| Target Milestone: | --- | ||
| Hardware: | PC | ||
| OS: | Windows XP | ||
| Whiteboard: | |||
| Bug Depends on: | |||
| Bug Blocks: | 202044 | ||
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Description
Chris Aniszczyk
no, my secret plan was to get the function factored out and then not allow it back in any features. hmmm, ok ok, +1 Any volunteers from the Platform UI team to add it to the RCP feature? you will likely wan to talk to Kim in Releng land... Chris, I'll add this plugin to the rcp feature once the integration build is complete for this week (i.e. no more rebuilds) want to close this one Kim? released. Hmm, it was pointed out to me that this would be precedence setting. Currently (well, earlier today) there were no views whatsoever in the RCP feature. So the question is, is the log view really applicable to all RCP applications, or just something really interesting to many? Reopening to reconsider. my mistake, talked to John. This should go into the Platform feature where all the other views live. Kim should be adding it to the Platform feature later this afternoon. Since life with RCP didn't work out, it has been moved to the platform. Let's hope they live happily ever after. Personally, I think it should stay in the PDE feature. The contents of the error log are only of interest to plug-in developers, not to end users. If we really wanted to communicate this information to end users, log messages would have to be translated. +1 for leaving the log view in the PDE feature. I like the fact that the log view is in a separate bundle now, but I am not convinced that the log view makes sense in all products that are built on top of the platform feature. I personally believe it should be broken out of the PDE feature. I think this view it helpful to more than just developers. Others in the community seem to feel the same way: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=50517 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=105585 > Others in the community seem to feel the same way
Absolutely, and by splitting the log into a separate bundle, those two users are now free to add the log to their application without dragging in the rest of PDE. That's goodness. However, by putting it in the platform feature, you're asserting that *all* consumers of the platform want the log view. I'm not sure this is a reasonable assumption from the small sample of users who have commented on it (and from the two votes on the original bug report).
Do we need the Eclipse Supreme Court to rule on this? I would be fine either way and I can see John's point, but I think he would be surprised to see the usage of the log view within applications. In the end, people can use the PDEPackager to splice things however they want. Since the log view is now in a separate plug-in, they should be fine. Assigning reopened bug to Boris since he's been part of conversation. Agree it doesn't seem applicable to all products build on platform. Then again, it doesn't seem like you should have to have PDE just to get it since its of larger applicability. Yes, there is a deeper and more general problem, as there are a number of reusable bits and pieces in Platform, RCP, and SDK that consumers may reasonably want to carve out. In the old (current) update world, features were really the unit of installation and configuration, so it would take a large number of features satisfy all possible consumers. In the new update world (p2), bundles are the basic unit of installation/configuration, so all resolvable permutations of bundles are available to the consumer. Hopefully this will allow more "a la carte" consumption of bundles from the SDK rather than the "table d'hote" style features we have today. Since everyone has their knickers in a bunch, we can move the plug-in back to the PDE feature if noone has a better idea for a home for it. It will just look odd to have something called 'org.eclipse.ui.views.log' within PDE. It's not an uncommon request for people to want the log view in their RCP applications (http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.platform.rcp/msg25072.html). Hopefully with p2 on the horizon, we can have things "a la carte." too many boxes, so little time... leave it where it is lest ye turn to lime ok ok, so I had to figure out myself what I meant... PDE feature is a good home for now. this bug just made me spill wine all over my carpet >_< so, do we keep the org.eclipse.ui.views log or do we go with org.eclipse.pde.log? Do the UI folks mind the impediment on their namespace? I don't have a problem with the new name. (In reply to comment #21) > this bug just made me spill wine all over my carpet >_< come on, that doesn't even rhyme! > Do the UI folks mind the impediment on their namespace? Clearly the wine is an impediment to you use of the English language ;-) No time for limerick's here Jeff ;) Note: Bleach and carpet don't go well ;o My vote: - new name is good - keep it in pde Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of tickytacky Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same Okay, this plugin has been moved to the pde-feature. Let's hope this is the end of the feature-surfing! *ROOOFL* I've been following this bug and all it's predecessors for some time now and it's really funny to see how the problem is not tackled at all. The plug-in got pushed out of PDE, renamed, added to RCP, moved to Platform. That's when I really was happy with the rsolution. Now it made it's way back into PDE and we are back to square one. Guess the community will have to live with the fact that the error log resides in the platform, is even used by osgi and is an immense help to all RCPers while the error log view remains in PDE domain. You could have made this clear without the whole pushing around of that poor plug-in... ;) That idea of bundles being the smallest possible update-able entity sounds promissing, maybe I can make my customers happy with that one :) (In reply to comment #27) > You could have made this clear > without the whole pushing around of that poor plug-in... ;) It's a good thing that the plug-in does not have any PDE dependencies anymore, so Chris' time was not wasted. > maybe I can make my customers happy Can you not include the plug-in in one of your features? (In reply to comment #28) > It's a good thing that the plug-in does not have any PDE dependencies anymore, so Chris' time was not wasted. > Can you not include the plug-in in one of your features? We decided to ship the error log back when we started basing our (C/C++) product on Eclipse (2.1 I think) without PDE ever making it into our release. So there never were any PDE dependencies that were reducing the usability of the error log in an environment where the PDE was not present. The main issue I have with the current location of the plug-in is that if our customers decide to add PDE to our product they will have the plug-in twice and an error will be spawned (understandably) by the Update Manager. More importantly though, it's still my humble opinion that the UI for the .log file should be shipped with the same feature as the service. The Error Log View not only displays the file graphically, it's also the most important tool to get back the relationship of issues in the .log, can't count the number of times I went through a customers .log and tried to find the root cause of a problem, most annoyingly the root bundle that did not resolve causing a chain of child (and completely uninteresting) problems down the road. The UI can display relations and helps a lot. Since no net action was taken, I'm going to reopen this bug (the log is still in the same feature it was last week). The log view is staying in the PDE feature. *** Bug 205580 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** (In reply to comment #29) > The main issue I have with the current location of the plug-in is that if our > customers decide to add PDE to our product they will have the plug-in twice and > an error will be spawned (understandably) by the Update Manager. Hopefully, this will be fixed in 3.4 with the new provisioning story. > More importantly though, it's still my humble opinion that the UI for the .log > file should be shipped with the same feature as the service. I disagree. The Error Log view might be usable (and useful!) for your end-users, who (I'm guessing) are programmers themselves. The Platform feature is used in many products, not all of which have English-speaking programmers as end-users. (In reply to comment #33) > The Platform feature > is used in many products, not all of which have English-speaking programmers as > end-users. This is only a limiting factor if the error messages are written in English. Though eclipse doesn't translate their error messages, I know at least a couple products which do. Therefore, language should not be a determining factoring in the usefulness of this view. (In reply to comment #33) > The Error Log view might be usable (and useful!) for your end-users, who (I'm guessing) are programmers themselves. The Platform feature is used in many products, not all of which have English-speaking programmers as end-users. My customers speak all kinds of languages, turkish, german, french among others. Of course there are english speaking people as well. I for one am proud Austrian, so english is not my native tongue either. Not sure what this has to do with the location of the view anyway, not all plug-in developers are english speakers. I would suggest to make your concern a different bugzilla: "Translate messages in the Log View". Back to the original bug, the Log View in RCP/Platform, this has been shot down now, I surrender ;) Over the course of this and other, related bugzillas I heard many people comment on this effort, most of them in favor. I'm waiting for the next Eclipse user opening a bugzilla about this, I'll surely vote for that new one again :) After reading all this I'm confused. For 3.4 will the Error log view be included in all major packages available from http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ ? That's the main thing I want. That way I can just tell people to select Window > Show View > Error Log when they're reporting a bug in a plug-in, and the option will always be there. Otherwise I have to tell them about hunting down the .log file, which is hard for unsophisticated users. With the current organization, the Log View will not be available in the Java and C/C++ packages. Ok, then I want to open a new bugzilla entry to request that. What would be the best product/component to put it under? Ed, depending on what you expect people to do with the log, the contents of the log are also accessible in all downloads via Help > About > Configuration Details > View Error Log. Hmm, that might be enough. It actually seems to provide more info than the error log view, for example in Configuration Details > View Error Log I can see: !ENTRY org.eclipse.jface 2 0 2007-10-09 08:45:44.334 !MESSAGE Keybinding conflicts occurred. They may interfere with normal accelerator operation. !SUBENTRY 1 org.eclipse.jface 2 0 2007-10-09 08:45:44.334 !MESSAGE A conflict occurred for ALT+CTRL+H: Binding(ALT+CTRL+H, ParameterizedCommand(Command(org.eclipse.jdt.ui.edit.text.java.open.call.hierarchy,Open Call Hierarchy, Open a call hierarchy on the selected element, Category(org.eclipse.ui.category.navigate,Navigate,null,true), , ,,true),null), org.eclipse.ui.defaultAcceleratorConfiguration, org.eclipse.ui.contexts.window,,,system) Binding(ALT+CTRL+H, ParameterizedCommand(Command(org.polarion.team.svn.ui.command.ShowResourceHistoryCommand,Show Resource History, , Category(org.polarion.team.svn.ui.command.category,SVN,null,true), ActionDelegateHandlerProxy(null,org.polarion.team.svn.ui.action.local.ShowHistoryAction), ,,true),null), org.eclipse.ui.defaultAcceleratorConfiguration, org.eclipse.ui.contexts.window,,,system) But in the error log view, using the 'copy event details to clipboard button' all I can get is these two warnings: Warning Tue Oct 09 08:45:44 EDT 2007 Keybinding conflicts occurred. They may interfere with normal accelerator operation. Warning Tue Oct 09 08:45:44 EDT 2007 A conflict occurred for ALT+CTRL+H: |